Explaining 3rd Edition lore to die hard 2nd Edition players

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Blaque
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When we get Many-Faced Strangers I think a lot of the attention we gav to DBs will also refocus on the Lunar Exalted, who I think together with Dragon-Bloodeda re presented as the key elements ot the world's status quo, which Solar Exalted are upending in their reappearance. At least to me, how 3e is setup, the most important world-defining Exalts for world-as-is are Dragon-Blooded and Lunars. The Exalt sort with the most potential to upend that are the Solar Exalted due to their indivdiual pwoer and relative numbers, plus general thematic stuff. I think that's a good dynamic myself.

I think also with the next books besides MFS being pretty Exalt-agnostic (Crucible of Legends and Across the Eight Directions) we're also going to just see more like, setting qua setting and that's going to be helpful for Solar games as well as they are generally most tied to coming out of cultures as they are, so to speak. Exigents to an extent also just expands the settting with what it includes with thel ocations of some example Exigents and what it implies with the world's history.

I think also a bit of the 'hiding things' factor is in part just like...there' snot a lot of spots to discuss some of the things 2e decided to wax poetic on. Like, we don't know a lot about the titans because honestly, we don't have the book on Hell and stuff yet. We aren't going to get more on teh First Age than the era snippets because frankly it's not relevant to 3e. And we didn't get old Lunar Castes because the time and effor to develop them is not as important as making sure the three we have now are good and using the change as a way to discuss Lunar history.

I guess that's a bit to me on that front. It's not I think as much a "making htings vaguer than usual". It's just like...what eactly needs to be said more explicilty, and in the context of the books we have? Which right now is mostly artifacts, some historical timeline stuff, the Realm, Dragon-Blooded, Lunars, and locations related to those groups more than anywhere else. I guess the big thing to me is what the big setting secret made vaguer to detriminet is exactly besides "Don't do DotFA again", which 1e got away with fine not having and we got most of the main splats for 2e before it came out (the traditioanl five save Abyssals mostly.)

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CTPhipps
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Kashi wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 5:47 am
CTPhipps wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:29 am FYI - is it just me or is Third Edition's supplements a bit Dragonblooded heavy?

Sad fact of having, like, five books published. One of them being the DB book and the other the Realm. :/

I also think this is overcompensation. 2E sort of shit on the Dragonblooded, so, 3E thinks it has to super build them up. Same with hiding everything behind a veil of vagueness and maybes. 2E over explained, so we're going to scrub that out and say it was super bad* and then never explain anything.

There's got to be a happy medium.

*Although, admittedly, some of 2E was super bad.

That's really a fascinating irony because I feel like the Solars are dreadfully underdeveloped compared to the Dragonblooded. The Dragonblooded come automatically equiped with the Great Houses and realm politics. The Solars are mostly stuck with having the best Charms but are divided and don't have much option for doing intrigue or having kingdoms to deal with. I'm hoping Third Edition will give them more things to do than be "wandering swordsman/monk who punches great evil."
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CTPhipps wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 11:12 pm
That's really a fascinating irony because I feel like the Solars are dreadfully underdeveloped compared to the Dragonblooded. The Dragonblooded come automatically equiped with the Great Houses and realm politics. The Solars are mostly stuck with having the best Charms but are divided and don't have much option for doing intrigue or having kingdoms to deal with. I'm hoping Third Edition will give them more things to do than be "wandering swordsman/monk who punches great evil."

Again, another sad fact of the way the default setting is constructed since 1E with the Solars being freshly returned. They've got nothing. It just is what it is.

Tangentially related; I have always thought that the Solars were done a horrendous disservice by having their 'book' lumped with the core system engine and setting; even though they are the default protagonists of Exalted. As much as I loathed it when it came out (and I did for many reasons), I think the Chronicles of Darkness way with having a single book that is only the core rules and then creating a book that is just for the Solars would have done wonders for fleshing them out. It would give us an entire splat sized book that might discuss the returning Solar's viewpoints even if they are supposed to be the most varied of the Exalts in terms of goals as they have no unifying 'culture' behind them such as the Scarlet Dynasty or the Silver Pact or the Five Score Fellowship.

Also, Exalted fandom, at least in the past in its 2E heyday, has had people who utterly and completely despised the Solar Exalted. Why? I have no idea. I wonder if that hasn't subconsciously wormed its way into the back of the minds of the current development team. Not that they themselves hate the Solars, but that they think people don't care about them or don't want to see them and instead went hog wild with the other Exalted. Admittedly, that is complete speculation and hearsay as I don't follow the dev team anymore. I couldn't even tell you who is on it or what they're working on. No point for me to do so, really. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Last edited by Kashi on Thu Mar 10, 2022 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Five Fathoms Fall
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Kashi wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 12:57 am Tangentially related; I have always thought that the Solars were done a horrendous disservice by having their 'book' lumped with the core system engine and setting; even though they are the default protagonists of Exalted. As much as I loathed it when it came out (and I did for many reasons), I think the Chronicles of Darkness way with having a single book that is only the core rules and then creating a book that is just for the Solars would have done wonders for fleshing them out. It would give us an entire splay sized book that might discuss the returning Solar's viewpoints even if they are supposed to be the most varied of the Exalts in terms of goals as they have no unifying 'culture' behind them such as the Scarlet Dynasty or the Silver Pact or the Five Score Fellowship.

I'd love it, but it's tricky.

There's the obvious backlash of "What the fuck do you mean we have to buy two books!?". Not many systems get away with that. With Exalted's draw being mythic heroes possessed of incredible prowess and power, I don't think any corebook implementation that both is sold and doesn't contain some Exalt type would fly.
Making the core rules PDF free or free with purchase of any splatbook might work but would be esoteric. (Also, no way to make the print-only customers happy.)
Having some other Exalt type in core just steals their fluffspace. Dragon-Blooded have so much history and integration into the world that they need all their fluffspace. Exigents seem like a logical choice, but making homebrew-Exalt the default would alienate all the not-homebrewers. An ExEss style universals-with-modes might work, with corebook-Exigents being brew-your-own-mode but entirely playable without doing so due to universal Charms.

But I think the more damning thing is that Solars would need to be reworked to survive if cast out from their lofty thrones in the corebook.
Right now, Solars hold the niche of having no niche, the distinction of having no distinction. They have no true themes, instead being grounded in excellence and vague but superlative power. They have no history or structures in which they exist. Which are strengths, from a design standpoint. A Solar player doesn't have to bend their concept to fit Solar themes, doesn't have to fit their character into preexisting Solar social structures, doesn't have to delve into the lore or world. In short, they're perfect for introducing players to Exalted because almost all of the introduction can be accomplished in play.
But if the corebook turns its face from them, they're no longer the Chosen of introductions and beginner-friendliness. They'd have to inhabit some other space. And while I think that'd be a net positive, it'd be a fundamental change to the Solar (lack of) identity. And I think that'd cause even more backlash.
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Five Fathoms Fall wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:59 am

I'd love it, but it's tricky.

But I think the more damning thing is that Solars would need to be reworked to survive if cast out from their lofty thrones in the corebook.
Right now, Solars hold the niche of having no niche, the distinction of having no distinction. They have no true themes, instead being grounded in excellence and vague but superlative power. They have no history or structures in which they exist. Which are strengths, from a design standpoint. A Solar player doesn't have to bend their concept to fit Solar themes, doesn't have to fit their character into preexisting Solar social structures, doesn't have to delve into the lore or world. In short, they're perfect for introducing players to Exalted because almost all of the introduction can be accomplished in play.
But if the corebook turns its face from them, they're no longer the Chosen of introductions and beginner-friendliness. They'd have to inhabit some other space. And while I think that'd be a net positive, it'd be a fundamental change to the Solar (lack of) identity. And I think that'd cause even more backlash.

I don't think you'd have to rework them that much, as you are 100% correct they are intended to be the intro splat with beginner friendliness. What I would do is incorporate more things like were featured in the old caste books that showed how the Solars once were contrasted with what they are now along with possibly the Cult of the Illuminated. 

And yes, hardbooks are already ridiculously overpriced and the bitching about buying two books would be insane. But I would bundle them together at a discount to blunt the price somewhat if possible. It might have also mitigated some of the hilarity of 3E's core book size. 
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A lot of the 3e corebook's bulk was a side-effect of how the 3e Kickstarter was early in the way OPP does Kickstarters. About half the spells, spirits, animals, and 8/11 of the Martial Arts styles would off the bat have been in the Companion, rather than the corebook, and I'd not be surprised that if we didn't exist in the crueiltiy of linear time some other things might have been saved for it as well, such as some of the locations and artifacts.
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Well, I want more Solar storytelling content. I was really hoping 3rd Edition would avert the, "Solars have no niche so they can be anything." Which means absolutely nothing because anyone can be absolutely nothing so they can be anything. If the ST has to do all the work in establishing it then they aren't really helping:

Things I wanted to see from Solars were:

* Solar cults that had emerged and are searching for Solars to worship. Not just the Cult of the Illuminated which was made a Sidereal thing not a solar thing.

* Solar Kingdoms. We have the Bull of the North but other smaller city-states would be good.

* Solar patron gods. We have Lytek but others willing to their lot behind them would be a good thing.

* Secret societies founded by the Solars in the past five years to undermine the Realm and other groups.

We have 23 Solar Shards to do the things that can't have been done in the past five years.
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Blaque wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 9:47 am A lot of the 3e corebook's bulk was a side-effect of how the 3e Kickstarter was early in the way OPP does Kickstarters. About half the spells, spirits, animals, and 8/11 of the Martial Arts styles would off the bat have been in the Companion, rather than the corebook, and I'd not be surprised that if we didn't exist in the crueiltiy of linear time some other things might have been saved for it as well, such as some of the locations and artifacts.

I would blame the horrendous idea of 'natural language' in the charms more than the kickstarter bonus and the bloated charm trees themselves. I get what they were trying to do; you have small charms at first that give fiddly bonuses that all stack and add to each other that build into your capstone charms. Neat idea. BUT, it creates a horrifically over written book if you're not careful. This coupled with the fact that Morke in particular seemed to love his page long, very complicated charms bloated the book considerably. You can see that from the Ink Monkeys. The editing needed another pass. The prose in the core book, to me, seems very clunky compared to almost any other Exalted product. Even other 3E books. I find the Solar charms very difficult to comprehend at a glance. Not so with the Lunar or Dragon Blooded charms, which you can tell were edited much better. They also messed around so long fiddling with the combat system (which I cannot describe to you how much it disappointed me, but that is another thread entirely) that they had to put something out. Morke's illness did not help either (but I cast no blame for that.)
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Oh no, I agree the Solar Charms have issues on prose, brevity, consistency, and effeciency. It's frustrating to me especially since there's cool ideas in there but the execution is not up to snuff a lot of the time. But I will also note that we're probably getting a bit beyond the weeds of lore for 3e than the thread focuses on.

Kind of on that front though, I admit the main things as I go through what i"ve spieeld about is like...what's wholey new, like the new Exalt sorts, the Law of Diminishment for Exaltaiton, and the map itself. Less transformative than additive, so what to say on that I'm not too sure. <_<
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Blaque wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 9:48 pm It's also unclear whether Unshaped come back, as they were something that kind of ate a lot of wordcount and din't like, add a lot due to not being useful mechanically and kind of again, growing out of &quot;these beings of the infinite Chaos are the same things, actually&quot; I think.

There's current not plans to have Fair Folk PC rules. They're going to be treated a bit more &quot;bespoke&quot; this time, ala the ones we see in Adversaries of the Righteous so far.  Think more like gods than a PC option basically. [...] It's just that at this time last I saw, playable raksha isn't a big priority for 3e since it's focusing a lot more on the titular Exalted generally.

The part about them not being PCs is a relief - one of the Wyld-based Lore charms in Core mentions "the fair folk's player" and my gut sank. I am personally a big stan of the Unshaped "beings of infinite chaos" fair folk though, which is how they came across in the general fluff (at least to me) rather than what the actual Fair Folk books portrayed them as, "Busty Elves".

That said, the levels of relative power between different kinds of fair folk is completely broken at the moment (a Rakshasa Catephract has 20 motes of essence, but the one Noble in Adversaries has 100, on par with someone like Ahlat) so the idea of them being completely bespoke sounds like a huge amount of work if you're expected to "just use your imagination!"
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CTPhipps wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 3:28 pm Things I wanted to see from Solars were:

* Solar cults that had emerged and are searching for Solars to worship. Not just the Cult of the Illuminated which was made a Sidereal thing not a solar thing.

* Solar Kingdoms. We have the Bull of the North but other smaller city-states would be good.

* Solar patron gods. We have Lytek but others willing to their lot behind them would be a good thing.

* Secret societies founded by the Solars in the past five years to undermine the Realm and other groups.

We have 23 Solar Shards to do the things that can't have been done in the past five years.

As others have said they suffer from being in the core and not having had their own companions or caste books or whatever...part of which is a long standing issue with them being the core splat, and the other part is a 3e issue with how much OPP are able to reasonably handle. With any luck we might get some little drips of this into Eight Directions.

As a wish list though this feels pretty reasonable to me. It's exactly the sort of stuff I would have hoped for if we got a companion pdf or other book for solars. Stuff like either reworking the Cult of the Illuminated (something I think @Lioness has thoughts on) to be less of a Sid thing, or giving other little hold outs and societies that are sat there primed for a Solar PC to hook into are exactly the sort of level that you could introduce without dragging the setting too far in one direction for anyone who's less into solars being central to everything in their game. Likewise secret societies.

And I'd also junk the gold and bronze factions as a us vs. them concept and go with something like you've said there and present a number of gods and other similar beings that have varying levels of opinion of the idea of the solar return and set them up as setting elements to interact with, with nuance and their own agendas. Characters like Five Days Darkness or Nysela. Going back to the original topic of the thread the way that 3e has somewhat distanced itself from having high powered character like this be more prominent in favour of a more shrouded feel to stuff is a thing that has positives and negatives to me, but it certainly hurts someone who wants that sort of thing out of the game.

The only one I'd have more misgivings with would be the solar kingdoms. Firstly I think that having too many set up poses a bunch of questions about exactly what that means for any game remotely in proximity to them and why they aren't figuring as a dominant presence. I'd rather have the potential to work that sort of thing in as my own game sees fit and that seems to be the intent with leaving places like the Hundred Kingdoms open for you to throw whatever you want in there.

Second, I want that to be what the PCs are there for. The vast majority of solar or mixed games I've played in have quickly moved to kingdom building and the PCs ruling stuff and I'd much rather be telling a story of them cutting out their own place in the world and being the special ones rather than tacking them onto the coat tails of something thats there already or having lines to work within in terms of my own world building. What sort of thing would you expect to see in a setting book with a solar kingdom that would dodge some of that?
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andrix wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:29 pmAs others have said they suffer from being in the core and not having had their own companions or caste books or whatever...part of which is a long standing issue with them being the core splat, and the other part is a 3e issue with how much OPP are able to reasonably handle. With any luck we might get some little drips of this into Eight Directions.

Thanks for answering and yes, I actually think being the "core" splat has hurt the Solars in a way that has left them underdeveloped for story purposes. As more Exalted show up, the Solars are caught competing with them, which is a shame. The Solars being the BEST AT EVERYTHING makes them look like they have no focus and makes the other splats look inferior when it also deprives the Solars of a really solid niche. It doesn't also help that converted Solars like Abyssals and some Infernals already have the same basic niche but with more flavor.

I don't have any problem with the Solars being equals rather than Lunars and Sidereals' superior. I don't think the Solars should be defined by their power scale (albeit they are inherently pretty damn powerful as their story role). It's a bit like Superman vs. The Flash or the Hulk. What makes Superman awesome was never that he's faster or stronger than everyone. He's damn fast and strong but nothing changes if they're faster or stronger. What makes Superman great is his story role. This is something some comic book writers actually fought against as if Superman getting beaten in a fight by Darkseid and not being "the strongest ever" mattered.

As a wish list though this feels pretty reasonable to me. It's exactly the sort of stuff I would have hoped for if we got a companion pdf or other book for solars. Stuff like either reworking the Cult of the Illuminated (something I think @Lioness has thoughts on) to be less of a Sid thing, or giving other little hold outs and societies that are sat there primed for a Solar PC to hook into are exactly the sort of level that you could introduce without dragging the setting too far in one direction for anyone who's less into solars being central to everything in their game. Likewise secret societies.

There's a lot you can do with cults and I think this is a natural place to start with Solars being more inclined than other Exalted to have worshipers. The Solars could lean heavier into Social Charms and delusions (?) of divinity. You could also have many of these cults be quite horrifying. Human sacrifice to Solars ala the Aztecs, people who expect the Solars to smite all the unbelievers, and cults that have just gotten WEIRD are all interesting angles to pursue. Religion is already strange in Creation and the Solars may find they are not what their faithful expected or wanted.

Look at Rabbi Ben Joseph in some interpretations of prophecy. :) What happened to him was not good.

And I'd also junk the gold and bronze factions as a us vs. them concept and go with something like you've said there and present a number of gods and other similar beings that have varying levels of opinion of the idea of the solar return and set them up as setting elements to interact with, with nuance and their own agendas. Characters like Five Days Darkness or Nysela. Going back to the original topic of the thread the way that 3e has somewhat distanced itself from having high powered character like this be more prominent in favour of a more shrouded feel to stuff is a thing that has positives and negatives to me, but it certainly hurts someone who wants that sort of thing out of the game.

Part of what I disliked about the Gold vs, Bronze faction is that it didn't benefit the Solars and it didn't benefit the Sidereals either as a concept. The Gold vs. Bronze conflict is something that should certainly be an issue but I can't imagine the Sidereals are worried about it over a thousand other political divisions. Also, it seems like there'd be a lot more nuance and shades along the way. Yes, Chojep would be, "Put them all back in the Jade prison now!" But I'm sure there'd also be guys who are, "Use these guys to fix Creation and the First Age technology and if they go crazy, slit their throats."

There's going to be a spectrum, especially for Siderelas who don't remember the First Age.

The only one I'd have more misgivings with would be the solar kingdoms. Firstly I think that having too many set up poses a bunch of questions about exactly what that means for any game remotely in proximity to them and why they aren't figuring as a dominant presence. I'd rather have the potential to work that sort of thing in as my own game sees fit and that seems to be the intent with leaving places like the Hundred Kingdoms open for you to throw whatever you want in there.

I'll address this a bit more below.

Second, I want that to be what the PCs are there for. The vast majority of solar or mixed games I've played in have quickly moved to kingdom building and the PCs ruling stuff and I'd much rather be telling a story of them cutting out their own place in the world and being the special ones rather than tacking them onto the coat tails of something thats there already or having lines to work within in terms of my own world building. What sort of thing would you expect to see in a setting book with a solar kingdom that would dodge some of that?

In my most recent game, the player characters went to an Egyptian-themed city-state that had been taken over by a Solar Exalted and his wife before they drove out the Realm, conquered some neighbors, and opened the door to their fellow Solar Exalted with plans of building an army to reconquer Creation.

The PCs killed the guy after a few sessions out of disgust for his various actions and now have to rule the city-state beneath them while dealing with both his loyalists and all the enemies he made beforehand.

Which, for me as an ST, was a fantastic development overall.

When I'm thinking of Solar kingdoms, I'm thinking more Conan the Barbarian City-States and small places rather than Empires. I actually think the Bull in the North should be dialed back a bit. Yes, he might eventually have an army big enough to conquer the Blessed Isle but the North should be big. Part of what I feel like is a problem in the Solar Exalted is that most of them seem to have been written with the idea that they'd get along and that'd limit their use for PC interaction.

Havesh the Vanisher and Lyta are set up as potential antagonists (and oddly I feel they should have more positive qualities) but I feel like virtually every Solar is someone you could potentially butt heads with. One man's hero being another man's villain and not just the Dragonblooded. The local politics of a city-state or kingdom could easily be something the players have to deal with both good and bad.

Some thoughts off the top of my head:

* The players come to a petty kingdom that has been converted to the worship of the Unconquered Sun and only the Unconquered Sun. The Solar priest believes all other gods must not be worshiped and has introduced draconian laws of morality.

Twist: The place used to worship demons and there's a pit of baby bones nearby. There's a reason he doesn't trust the locals to brush their own teeth and cut their own hair.

* The Perfect of Paragon is a pretty good Solar example even if you remove he's a human. He's a guy who is rebuilding the First Age with a combination of Charms as well as First Age tech. However, the people are slaves to his egopolis. Imagine Handsome Jack as a Solar Exalted.

Twist: Life is much-much better under the people and they are much-much happier. Who cares if they don't have free will? They didn't have before.

* A anarchist city where the Realm has been cast down and all the Patricians slaughtered. It is now a lawless hellhole where the law is to the strongest--exactly as the Dawn Caste ruler believes civilization should be.

Twist: Its a pretty cool base of operations!
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Random things that came to mind about the sky and time in Creation that I am not sure I mentioend but are relevant now that I have had an hour stolen from my due to DST.

Hours on the Clock
First off, hours are when relevant back to 24. Kind of worth noting that the 25-hour day was unique to Autochthonia communities in 1e and early 2e. Creation having 25 hours was mostly fanon that wasn't reified until the Lunars book. 3e explicilty rolls it back, in part since like...25 hours is actually kind of useless for what folks need for hours. (We have 12 or 24 historically on Earth a lot since like...that's useful as hell and develped independently).

Generally I suspect that Creation actually has some vareity of how to count time in actuality. Some socities might use the shift-system ala Autochthonia still, but my general view is that it's either just shorter hours, or if it's an hour like other folks use, they have less total cycle sin a year or don't even count days as days, just shift loops. Similarly how some culutres on Earth have double-hours, or only used hours during the daytime, or hours that expanded and contracted over the year, and so on.

Seasons
The one that is a big shift from even 1e is the elemental cycles in the calendar and the seasons being split-up a bit, and said seasons being organized to be more consistent. The 1e/2e arrangement of them were Air, Water, Earth, Wood, Fire, with Descending Fire being the hottest (last) month and Ascending Water being the coldest (fourth) month. THis means it went from peak of summer to dead of winter in three months, while stretching out the rest over a year. 2e just kind of worked with that, with hwo many harvests there were and so on.

3e does two things. First, it assumes that in a place lik the Blessed Isle (where the calendar is most consistent) you'll get the traditonal four seasons we're usually going to see on Earth because that's like...natural to us. This means spring, summer, autumn, winter since that's a lot of thematic space and terms left on teht able. Second, the elemental cycles are in the Imperial calendar still, just not called seasons but just the cycles of names. ANd they are rearranged to fit the seasonal rotation better with Air, Water, Wood, Fire, Earth.  There's some ovelrap but Winter is solidy Air and Fire solidly late Wood-to-Fire, so there's a lot more balance on the seasons there. it also varies in region, so this cycle also fits things like how Japan has despite four-on-paper actually a rainy season between May and June sandwitched between spring and summer, or how a lot of spots in North America right now have a lot of rain in early spring.

Basically something more familiar to people from Earth without having to point out to new people how all of Creation goes from the Solstice-to-Solstice in three months while the other in 12.

Skies During Calibration
In 1e and the 2e corebook, the only thing MIA in the sky is the moon. WHat this means in contrast with what the moon's phase is at the start or end of month isn't clear, mind. My general assumption is it's still a new moon, it's just that since it's a disk that glows or not, you probably can still find it at night with a telescope. Calibration was only that missing though. Sun still rose, stars still out. Hell, Five Days Darkness didn't actually work in 1e without the sun coming out during htis time.

The stars disappearing didn't happen until 2e Lunars (which again, brought 25 hour day into canon too) and was reaffirmed in the 2e Sidereals book. Though note, it never was the case of no sun. That's fanon stuff again kind of taking Five Days Darkness name a bit too literally. The sun always rose and set normally in the text. 

The big thing again in 3e is rolling this back a bit. The moon is gone. WHat it means so folks can notice I dunno. Maybe we'll get soem more on that later. Any other missing celestial bodies is up to you. I generally go with the stars are still there fine, but maybe making the month end on a Full moon rather than new moon like in our calendar. Need to see if anywhere on Earth did that.

Also note Calibration is generally still creepy and weird. The Night Parade mentioned in Hundred Devils Night Parade, more visits from ghosts, fairies, and demons, plus random Calibration Gate chicanary, weird weather, and ill omens means it does fine without having to be enough dakrness to kill a significant part of the world's plantlife annualy.

Starmetal While We're Here
Starmetal being dead gods was kind of introduced in Exalted: the Sidereals and I think there generally as a way to to make Sidereals well, assholes. It got expanded on in Savant & Sorcerer I think. The 2e corebook seemed to ignore that and most of early 2e did, until we got it brought back with Manual of Exalted Power: Abyssals and Oadenol's Codex, where a Charm and the thaumaturgy rules of those books kind of brought back divine souslteel in full force. Liquifying demons also became a hting as of the Infernals book.

3e again, is mostly rolling this back and being expllicit about it. Starmetal is meteoric iron. Sometimes stuff just falls down. There's Essence in the stars and the metal absorbs soem. It even notes funky-colored starmetal that can be associated with particular constelations while at it. Basically keep tot he roots of the material and add some astrology falvor.

Kind of similar while here to the demon stuff. The devs want demons to be like, more than something you look at as to how to juice them for pain-gas or turn into artifacts as more useful than like, using the demon. So demon-forged artifacts do exist (Stormcaller is a good example) it's less the way that 2e made it out that almost everything of Hellish origin is demon-juice derived.

First Age History
This is something already kind of noted that the timeline of Creation before the Usurpation is different in 3e than 2e. For one, the First Age is longer expliclty, having lasted about 5,000 years in the 3e coreobok versus 3-4,000 years in the previous editions. This has some knock-down effects, like currently Chejob Kejak despite his own age, the world of the Exalted was ancient already when he was born. There's also some interesting eras hinted at in the artifaact write-ups of the book so far. The braod-strokes thing is we know there was a global rebuilding after the Divine Revolution, a Solar-Lunar conflict at some point, an Eight Directions Embassy Era, a war with the Niobranans, and such before a Deliberative, then a collapse of it, then a rise of a Second Deliberative towards the end. But in that ime there's a lot that could happen that based on the names seems to be various forms of Tanith Lee or Lord Dunsany weirdness all over the place.

There is a current summary and speculative timeline here of all the Eras mentioned in artifacts in the books so far:
Exalted Eras

Note that this is kind of a split between 1e and 2e there. 1e we never got this much info. 2e went into exhaustive detail with the timeline in Dreams of the First Age. The intent is to basically have these events and the artifact's description serve as a plot hook primarily, rather than serving as an encyclopedia of setting deep more, is my guess.
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Kashi
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Blaque wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:10 pm
There is a current summary and speculative timeline here of all the Eras mentioned in artifacts in the books so far:
Exalted Eras


"Mercury Era of the 6th Epoch of the Dragon-Blooded Shogunate"

I am glad they're keeping the Shogunate Calendars. I love figuring dates out and I always thought it was unique.
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Kashi wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:48 am I am glad they're keeping the Shogunate Calendars. I love figuring dates out and I always thought it was unique.

Same. It's a good exmaple to me how not everything in Creation uses the Realm calendar, kind of like how despite what it looks like, folks through most of history weren't on the Gregorian one here on Earth.
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